The "black death" pnuematic paintball gun
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SpudBlaster15
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Last edited by SpudBlaster15 on Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrCrowley
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How would you know im a slow learner? You werent here when I started out so you have no idea what I have and havnt learnt and obviously more then you.
Ok now re-do it but using the valve under generic instead of barrel sealer, this is what GGDT gave me:
ok it wont upload...bloody photobucket...anyway it gave me 627fps instead of 670fps under barrel sealer. And the .2" mod is just taking the nozzle of the blow gun everyone does it and they calculated that into the generic option wiht the opening time and what not.
Did you do the weight/inertia test yet? Have you finaly realised weight doesnt mean distance?
And incase you didnt read Joanna's responce:
"Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 07:12:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PotatoNick's claim is right, but the science is flawed. To straighten it out:
Assuming the 1.5" and 2" spud slugs are the same length, their weight is proportional to their cross sectional area (as their length is fixed), as is the drag force.
Under F=ma, . If the mass doubles, and the force doubles, then the end acceleration is the same. So, the deceleration from drag at the same flight speed is equal for both bores.
As the 1.5" slug weighs less and thus goes faster in the first place (lower bore, so longer barrel to accelerate along for the same chamber size), then that means that range will increase by a certain degree.
When it has slowed down to the same speed as the 2" slug would have, then it'll will have already gone some distance, and have more altitude - from that point it follows the same ballistic arc as the 2" slug would have done from the muzzle, ignoring tumbling and variations of wind with altitude.
I was messing with my range calculator to add an optimum projectile weight estimator. So far the findings are that light projectiles (for a given bore) slow down too fast to get enough range, unless they are carefully ballistically streamlined.
Heavy projectiles simply don't have the speed and hangtime to achieve the longest ranges.
In any case, a compromise needs to be found between the two to achieve the best possible range."
Oh and recruit not until either one or both of us have been proven wrong by some one who doesnt side with the other
Ok now re-do it but using the valve under generic instead of barrel sealer, this is what GGDT gave me:
ok it wont upload...bloody photobucket...anyway it gave me 627fps instead of 670fps under barrel sealer. And the .2" mod is just taking the nozzle of the blow gun everyone does it and they calculated that into the generic option wiht the opening time and what not.
Did you do the weight/inertia test yet? Have you finaly realised weight doesnt mean distance?
And incase you didnt read Joanna's responce:
"Posted - Jan 09 2007 : 07:12:48
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PotatoNick's claim is right, but the science is flawed. To straighten it out:
Assuming the 1.5" and 2" spud slugs are the same length, their weight is proportional to their cross sectional area (as their length is fixed), as is the drag force.
Under F=ma, . If the mass doubles, and the force doubles, then the end acceleration is the same. So, the deceleration from drag at the same flight speed is equal for both bores.
As the 1.5" slug weighs less and thus goes faster in the first place (lower bore, so longer barrel to accelerate along for the same chamber size), then that means that range will increase by a certain degree.
When it has slowed down to the same speed as the 2" slug would have, then it'll will have already gone some distance, and have more altitude - from that point it follows the same ballistic arc as the 2" slug would have done from the muzzle, ignoring tumbling and variations of wind with altitude.
I was messing with my range calculator to add an optimum projectile weight estimator. So far the findings are that light projectiles (for a given bore) slow down too fast to get enough range, unless they are carefully ballistically streamlined.
Heavy projectiles simply don't have the speed and hangtime to achieve the longest ranges.
In any case, a compromise needs to be found between the two to achieve the best possible range."
Oh and recruit not until either one or both of us have been proven wrong by some one who doesnt side with the other
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SpudBlaster15
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Last edited by SpudBlaster15 on Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrCrowley
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Ok first of all stop insulting me when we are trying to prove a point,not to see how many times you call me stupid and everyone thinks your a f*ck-wit.
The flow under barrel sealer is different to the generic option, If you chrony your gun you'll find it will shoot around the 630fps mark GGDT said, not the 670fps mark. The reason there is such a big difference is becasue a piston barrel sealer requires alot more flow then that of a blow gun, .1" difference wouldnt be sufficent, But a solenoid valve only needs a normal blow gun to pilot, increasing the flow to .2" wont make much difference.
Also you said~
"Increasing the volume by a factor of 4 makes a large difference, I will post the GGDT file in a bit."
By Increasing the flow from .1"-2" you get a 80ish fps increase,increase it to .3" and you get 2fps increase, Today im picking up my new paintball gun(FE's got welded)and Ill do some damage shots at some GIB board. With the normal blow gun piloting ti'll find out how many layers of the GIB the gun can shoot a paintball through, I'll mod the blow gun to your specifications and then do another test and see if it improves the fps,I guess with a normal blow gun it will shoot through 2 layers, with a modded blow gun it should shoot through both layers and a layer of cardboard. If there are any directions on modding the blow gun send me the link.
Stop on the insults, I dont care what you think of me and neither does anyone else, they are irrelevent to this discussion.
The flow under barrel sealer is different to the generic option, If you chrony your gun you'll find it will shoot around the 630fps mark GGDT said, not the 670fps mark. The reason there is such a big difference is becasue a piston barrel sealer requires alot more flow then that of a blow gun, .1" difference wouldnt be sufficent, But a solenoid valve only needs a normal blow gun to pilot, increasing the flow to .2" wont make much difference.
Also you said~
"Increasing the volume by a factor of 4 makes a large difference, I will post the GGDT file in a bit."
By Increasing the flow from .1"-2" you get a 80ish fps increase,increase it to .3" and you get 2fps increase, Today im picking up my new paintball gun(FE's got welded)and Ill do some damage shots at some GIB board. With the normal blow gun piloting ti'll find out how many layers of the GIB the gun can shoot a paintball through, I'll mod the blow gun to your specifications and then do another test and see if it improves the fps,I guess with a normal blow gun it will shoot through 2 layers, with a modded blow gun it should shoot through both layers and a layer of cardboard. If there are any directions on modding the blow gun send me the link.
Stop on the insults, I dont care what you think of me and neither does anyone else, they are irrelevent to this discussion.
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joannaardway
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Whoa guys...
The way to win arguments is not to call the other person stupid and to have every 2nd word be offensive.
The way to win is to prove your own point right and their point wrong. Mixing that into a post that calls them an idiot will just annoy them so they can't be bothered to read what you said that is worth reading!
D_Hall has provided these figures himself for a sprinkler valve - it's on his own website.
Sprinkler Valve
Please note that it is a chamber sealer. (Noted two paragraphs above the data table)
You are both arguing incorrect points in your petty squabbling.
MrCrowley, the Generic Option on GGDT is there for a quick calculation, or ball valves. Most people model sprinkler valves with "generic" because they can't be arsed to remember all the numbers they need to know to do it as a chamber sealer.
Doubling the .1" of the vent port to .2" will increase the flow by a factor of 4 - because flow is proportional to area, not diameter - and area is proportional to diameter squared
You've posted fairly good evidence yourself - the doubling of diameter produces about 80 fps increase.
Spudblaster, range is a very funny thing. For the same muzzle velocity, a 1.5" and 2" round of the same length will go the same distance - neglecting tumbling of the round.
It's too long and winding to put in a short post, but it's easier to get a 1.5" to go faster for basic reasons - mostly to do with C:B ratios.
And to anyone who is interested: The 890 fps was from a piston valved pneumatic at 160 psi with a 150cm barrel (4' 11"-ish), with a small bit of wadding.
The way to win arguments is not to call the other person stupid and to have every 2nd word be offensive.
The way to win is to prove your own point right and their point wrong. Mixing that into a post that calls them an idiot will just annoy them so they can't be bothered to read what you said that is worth reading!
D_Hall has provided these figures himself for a sprinkler valve - it's on his own website.
Sprinkler Valve
Please note that it is a chamber sealer. (Noted two paragraphs above the data table)
You are both arguing incorrect points in your petty squabbling.
MrCrowley, the Generic Option on GGDT is there for a quick calculation, or ball valves. Most people model sprinkler valves with "generic" because they can't be arsed to remember all the numbers they need to know to do it as a chamber sealer.
Doubling the .1" of the vent port to .2" will increase the flow by a factor of 4 - because flow is proportional to area, not diameter - and area is proportional to diameter squared
You've posted fairly good evidence yourself - the doubling of diameter produces about 80 fps increase.
Spudblaster, range is a very funny thing. For the same muzzle velocity, a 1.5" and 2" round of the same length will go the same distance - neglecting tumbling of the round.
It's too long and winding to put in a short post, but it's easier to get a 1.5" to go faster for basic reasons - mostly to do with C:B ratios.
And to anyone who is interested: The 890 fps was from a piston valved pneumatic at 160 psi with a 150cm barrel (4' 11"-ish), with a small bit of wadding.
Novacastrian: How about use whatever the heck you can get your hands on?
frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
...I'm sorry, but that made my year.
frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
...I'm sorry, but that made my year.
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joannaardway
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890 was the average, with some spiking over 900 fps or more.
It was chronied by a homemade (but nonetheless accurate) chronograph, with similar results from a GGDT test.
The C:B ratio was about 1:1.
The builder was my brother ("Ragnarok" as he calls himself online), with one of his piston valves (piloted by another one) - He's got a hell of a lot of experience, so he's learnt some tricks to get the best opening times and flow out of his valves.
His next project will be capable of exceeding 1000 fps with a paintball if the GGDT data is correct.
I'll badger him to post the cannon here if you want - Normally he hides at UKSGC.
It was chronied by a homemade (but nonetheless accurate) chronograph, with similar results from a GGDT test.
The C:B ratio was about 1:1.
The builder was my brother ("Ragnarok" as he calls himself online), with one of his piston valves (piloted by another one) - He's got a hell of a lot of experience, so he's learnt some tricks to get the best opening times and flow out of his valves.
His next project will be capable of exceeding 1000 fps with a paintball if the GGDT data is correct.
I'll badger him to post the cannon here if you want - Normally he hides at UKSGC.
Novacastrian: How about use whatever the heck you can get your hands on?
frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
...I'm sorry, but that made my year.
frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
...I'm sorry, but that made my year.
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schmanman
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post count has nothing to do with it. I have been a member since early march, 2006, a couple three months before him, and I have less posts than him. he just posts a lot.Recruit wrote:I highly doubt Crowley would be wrong considering how many post he has made and how long he has been a member since June 24, 2006
no offense, crowley
. not trying to get involved. pc guy has many less posts than either of us, and he most defiantly knows more.just pointing out that post count has nothing to do with knowledge.
joannaardway, what is the porting on the piston valve?
Persistence is a measure of faith in yourself
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joannaardway
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20mm barrel, 26mm chamber, 13mm pilot, but specially arranged (or so I'm told).
Novacastrian: How about use whatever the heck you can get your hands on?
frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
...I'm sorry, but that made my year.
frankrede: Well then I guess it won't matter when you decide to drink bleach because your out of kool-aid.
...I'm sorry, but that made my year.
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MrCrowley
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schmanman wrote:post count has nothing to do with it. I have been a member since early march, 2006, a couple three months before him, and I have less posts than him. he just posts a lot.Recruit wrote:I highly doubt Crowley would be wrong considering how many post he has made and how long he has been a member since June 24, 2006
no offense, crowley
just pointing out that post count has nothing to do with knowledge.
joannaardway, what is the porting on the piston valve?
No offence taken
Joanna get your brother to post on here more often
I've been over to the UK site several time looking at all the copper guns 
but havnt seen his.@Recruit - Post count has nothing to do with it, i have over 1000posts here but on spudtech i have 60 something, im still the same person.
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SpudBlaster15
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Last edited by SpudBlaster15 on Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrCrowley
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Why dont you just shut the f*ck up spudblaster, i was waiting for someone i trusted and new what theyre talking about to interfere(sp?) with this discussion before I would continue on, She said what she had to say its over, I was wrong you were wrong we were both right and wrong, so just drop it man,you are being a total cock right now and everyone knows it.
P.S I was wrong about the barrel sealer part in GGDT and my esitmate,
You were wrong about the range with the heavier projectile.You were also wrong about the barrel sealer as the valve is actually a chamber sealer.
Just leave it alone, I changed subject becasue it was over, we had discussed what needed to be said and we were both corrected in some ways, Why carry on, the only thing left was to change subject and get back on topic. Why arnt I allowed to change subject and ask Joanna about her brothers spudgun?
Edit: Ok so using the new figures and putting valve under chamber sealer my paintball rifle shoots at 838fps at 115psi
It defiently doesnt look like that when I shoot it. 
P.S I was wrong about the barrel sealer part in GGDT and my esitmate,
You were wrong about the range with the heavier projectile.You were also wrong about the barrel sealer as the valve is actually a chamber sealer.
Just leave it alone, I changed subject becasue it was over, we had discussed what needed to be said and we were both corrected in some ways, Why carry on, the only thing left was to change subject and get back on topic. Why arnt I allowed to change subject and ask Joanna about her brothers spudgun?
Edit: Ok so using the new figures and putting valve under chamber sealer my paintball rifle shoots at 838fps at 115psi
It defiently doesnt look like that when I shoot it. -
SpudBlaster15
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Last edited by SpudBlaster15 on Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.